Doubting Bro

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Posts by Doubting Bro

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  27

  So I went to dinner with a big group of Witnesses last night - No Biblical discussion or WT talk of any kind

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there were 20 in the group from 3 congregations.

  it was kind of a "special talk" special meal with the speaker and his wife.. no one, i mean no one, not the elders there, nor the pioneers, talked about anything "spiritual.

  " everything was about work, entertainment, personalities in the congregation, and music.

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  Doubting Bro

  UC - exactly. I think its great that so many JWs don't take "the truth" nearly as seriously as they used to. Clearly the under 40 generations do not place the same level of committment to the WTS as the older generations did. I can't count the number of times we were counseled either from the platform or from the KM/WT on how our conversations should be spritually upbuilding. For example, when I was younger, I don't recall very much gossip in service. Now (at least in my experience) the topics of conversation have little to nothing to do about WT teachings or the Bible.

  Not sure how an observation of discussions is either positive or negative. It is what it is.
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  16

  THE WORLD IS COMING TO AN END

  by stillajwexelder in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  televisa television network quoted mexico city officials saying there were no immediate reports of damage or injuries.. the quake rattled nerves in a city already nervous about a swine flu outbreak suspected of killing as many as 149 people nationwide.. "i'm scared," said sarai luna pajas, a 22-year-old social services worker standing outside her office building moments after it hit.

  "we mexicans are not used to living with so much fear, but all that is happening the economic crisis, the illnesses and now this it feels like the apocalypse.".

  co-worker harold gutierrez, 21, said the country was taking comfort from its religious faith, but he too was gripped by the sensation that the world might be coming to an end.. "if it is, it is god's plan," gutierrez.

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  Doubting Bro

  Sill_in74 - great post. Also, the bubonic plague killed at least 75 million in the 14th century against an estimated 450 million. I think it was between 1/3 & 1/2 of Europe, about the same for China, and about 1/3 of the folks in the Middle East. Still, that's over 15% if you use the low end of the death range. I've seen it said that up to 200m could have been killed by the Black Death which would put it at around 50% of the world population.

  Compare that with the same number that were killed by the Spanish Flu in 1918 which I think was only less than 5% of the world population (1.8 billion). While clearly bad, not even close to the same level.

  I thought the last days were supposed to be so much worse than any other time in history? If this stuff kills 3 billion, then I may think there's something to it.
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  50

  First post after lurking on the sidelines

  by onefootout in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i've been lurking on the sidelines for a while and have decided to jump in and introduce myself.

  the name kinda gives it away.

  i'm a lifer who got a shocker about a year ago by stumbling across the 607 baloney.

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  Doubting Bro

  ofo - you certainly are NOT alone. Welcome and look forward to your comments.
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  6

  APATHY - NOT APOSTASY - IS WATCHTOWERS BIGGEST ENEMY

  by steve2 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  from time to time, a thread appears that suggests the time is "right" for the imminent collapse of the watchtower society.

  "evidence" is presented from a variety of electronic sources, especially the internet and the proliferation of sites twittering about significant developments in the watchtower society.

  when posters with fervent religious beliefs enter the discussion they confidently state, among other things, that "apostasy is rampant in the organization" (research lady).

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  Doubting Bro

  Steve2 - I completely agree with your take. And, I think the WT leadership is also well aware of the apathy within the organziation. All their effort to date has been focued on recruiting new members with very little effort placed on retaining current members. When baptisms were rolling, it didn't matter that 40-50k were leaving out of the back door. Now, baptisms are slowing down, kids fading or getting df'ed at a young age never to return.They really are at a loss as to what to do.

  They need to do something to combat the apathy. It almost seems like there's one school of thought that the load should lighten (reducing meeting days and time) and at the same time, there's a school of thought that the rank & file should be cracked down on (the prohibition of college).

  I think they're only chance of any long term meaningful growth is to either:

  1) have a charismatic leader emerge and pick a new end date - not likely given the current crop of DO/CO/Bethel heavies. They lack the creativity of Franz or forcefulness of Rutherford. And, if they pick a new end date and go past it, they will be toast this time. It's a very risky proposition.

  2) make changes that appeal to the younger generation - churches around here offer different classes that appeal to different demographics- men study groups, divorcee study groups, youth groups. These types of groups help build community and probably help the church appeal to new comers. They also help retain current members. The churches also have some sort of community outreach programs where they provide charity to ones in need. Again, this is helpful in engaging and retaining current members by giving them something fulfilling to be involved with. Certainly, service isn't very fulfilling to either the publisher or the householder.

  Thus far, leadership has shown itself inempt in dealing with its current internal issues. An apathic membership means lower contributions and less control. I will say that apathy is an issue that is faced by many religious organizations today. I think religion will always be around, its just that those who will grow and be successful are those that will figure out what their membership wants out of a religion and deliver it.
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  37

  Is it possible that the WT society will soon collapse like a house of cards?

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the recent internet phenomenon seems to be that 1. some news story breaks, and then 2. people start talking about it and twittering and forwarding emails about it.

  and then it multiplies and multiplies until finally, 3. the whole world is talking about it.

  the same with the madoff scheme.

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  Doubting Bro

  I highly doubt it will collapse anytime soon. Growth has really slowed down and I could see it turning slightly negative after 2014. But, I also see it as a slow fade. Nothing short of a major schism on the GB in which a portion of them wanted to start their own cult would cause a collapse. But, looking out 20 years, I see the WTS getting much smaller. The younger ones who are in are not really all that in and the older ones will largely be gone in 20 years. As mentioned, being allowed to be out in the open in China could have a profound impact on the numbers.
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  27

  So I went to dinner with a big group of Witnesses last night - No Biblical discussion or WT talk of any kind

  by BonaFide in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there were 20 in the group from 3 congregations.

  it was kind of a "special talk" special meal with the speaker and his wife.. no one, i mean no one, not the elders there, nor the pioneers, talked about anything "spiritual.

  " everything was about work, entertainment, personalities in the congregation, and music.

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  Doubting Bro

  When I look over the last few years, I see more and more of that. As OTWO said, when WT things are discussed (especially when I was an elder and many of my friends were also), we'd end up talking about negatives. Not doctrine, just how other elders were acting, what sort of crazy things some members of the congregation were involved with or rumored changes. Nothing faith promoting. Even now, when I get together with guys that are still elders, they relax a bit and center any WT conversation around negative stuff. And, these are folks that I think for the most part are still believers.

  Come to think of it, many conversations I have had in the KH have revolved around sports or other entertainment. I can't remember the last time any actual Bible topic was discussed.
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  38

  Does anyone have a scan? - JUNE 15 2009 WT Study Edition

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this one has an important article on the faithful steward and the governing body.

  cannot find one anywhere.... .

  thank you in advance!.

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  Doubting Bro

  They want the authority of someone who is acting at the direction of God, but none of the responsibility.
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  44

  What I do know is that there is peace to be found and there love to be had, after the organisation

  by LIftsong in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my mother became a jw when i was six months old so i was brought up within the confines of the organisation.

  i left properly in my early twenties and i am now 43 so a good 22 years of life, post being a witness have i travelled and documented thus far.

  mine was a typical experience of a child in the congregation and i was busy doing my best to be a little adult as the child within slowly fell asleep.

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  Doubting Bro

  Paul,

  What a moving thread to open with. Welcome and look forward to your contributions!
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  38

  Does anyone have a scan? - JUNE 15 2009 WT Study Edition

  by Ultimate Reality in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  this one has an important article on the faithful steward and the governing body.

  cannot find one anywhere.... .

  thank you in advance!.

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  Doubting Bro

  While there are many things to say about this article, I'll limit my comments for Blondie's review when we get a bit closer.Tthis seems to be a review of the QFR article that dropped the 1935 closing of the annointed date. I didn't catch any "new light" but I still think this is a step before just dropping the whole annointed thing and making the GB the faithful slave. I'm shocked that haven't done that already.

  Some of the liberties they take with Bible verses still amaze me. There are numerous examples but take a look at para 9:

  First, they admit that Paul & Barnabas were sent out as missionaries by the Antoich congregation without any direction from the "1st century governing body". Right, because there wasn't one. If you believe the Bible account, I'm thinking Jesus striking you blind on the road in front of witnesses, speaking to you and then restoring your sight would be ample proof that he wanted your help. Yeah, the other apostles selected Matthias by a casting of lots, but it seems to me that a booming voice and blindness outranks lots. But that's just me.

  Second, they refer to Gal 2:7-10 as the "1st century governing body" confirming Paul and Barnabas as apostles. Why don't they quote Gal 2:1 - Just read the first 3 words - FOURTEEN YEARS LATER. Really, if there was a central command in the first century, why did they wait 14 years before they "confirmed" Paul & Barnabas. Here they are starting congregations, baptizing people, going on missionary tours and the "GB" didn't weigh in? Could you imagine that today?? You mean to tell me that NO ONE in the Jerusalem congregation was aware that Paul & Barnabas were out and about without their permission? The only logical answer is that Paul & Barnabas didn't need their permission because Christianity was never set up to be a command and control religion. Oh, according to the account, Paul & Barnabas went to Jerusalem not due to a request from a governing body but because they received a revelation. And, according to Gal 2:2 - he approached those who "seemed to be leaders" because why? I would imagine because there wasn't a formal leadership structure.

  The more I really think about what the WTS writes, the more annoyed I get. And to think I actually believed they were "God's channel" at one time? Good lord am I stupid.
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  25

  Any mores news / rumors on no COs come 2011 - (winston?)

  by tresdecu in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hate to beat a dead horse.

  but just curious.

  winstonchurchill a new poster on the board is a former longtime co, what is your take on this?.

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  Doubting Bro

  abbagail - I think you're refering to Kline. Henschel was a rather tall man.